I'm sure they'll find a way to blame this on Millenials 

"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura) 07/16/2017 at 20:57 • Filed to: None

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This article really upset me. My father had me when he was already 45, so he’s kind of an old school guy. He taught me that if you work hard and dedicate yourself to the right company, you’ll be taken care of. Well back in his day, that was true, but apparently not anymore. Every company out there just wants to pump and dump their employees, and “loyal” is a code word for “beaten down”. For those that have told me in the past I need to change careers when things affect my pay, well I’m not the only one. It’s happening to all of us. Luckily I at least have a chance to make a ridiculous paycheck should my performance dictate it on a given much.

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My X-type is too a real Jaguar > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:00

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It’s been true since the late 90s dotcom boom. The only way I got a raise was to change jobs.

My bird IS the word > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:11

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And they complain that millennial have no loyalty, and that we change jobs too often.

I am bookmarking this article, thanks.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:13

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I’ve been at the same place for over 10 years.

It all comes down to whether or not you work in a place that gives raises that match or beat inflation. I work in a place that does.

On top of that, I like where I work. And the fact remains, having been a long time at a large, profitable company that looks after its employees, combined with Canadian labour laws, equals a certain amount of security.

However, not all companies look after their employees.

The last place I worked at didn’t... thus after a year, I just started looking again and landed in the job I’m in now.

One other thing.. in the article it states “John Hollon, former editor of Workforce.com, remembers when “ 5% was considered an average annual pay increase. ”

He’s probably remembering the 1980s and earlier. And thus, does he also remember how inflation was higher at that time as well?

Danger > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:13

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The employee is the only person looking out for the employee’s well being. It took me a while to learn that. Just switched companies after 7+ years and got a 30% pay increase among other things. The bullshit you have to deal with is the same at many places, so we might as well hit them up for all the money we can.

bob and john > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:14

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Everyone is out for each other now. No such thing as “loyalty” in buisness anymore. Which is fucking bullshit

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 07/16/2017 at 21:14

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I found that was already happening since the recession of the early 1990s. The last company I was at was milking “the economy” excuse 4-5 years after that recession ended.

Some companies deserve to have lots of turnover.

Wagon Guy drives a Boostang > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:15

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As a Gen Xer, there’s no way to blame this on the milennials. Corporate cultures changed beginning in the 80's to no longer taking care of employees the way they used to, and it came to a head in the 90's. Raises are no longer a given. I’ve found two ways to make more money; 1) leave for a new job elsewhere or 2) fight like hell for not just a raise, but a promotion.

Smart bosses know that replacing talented, knowledgable people costs way more than simply giving them a raise would. Too bad that the world is run by bad bosses.

yamahog > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:16

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when I started at my latest job, a coworker was about to retire after 40 years with the company. He told me that if he had started in this day and age, he’d never dream of sticking around one place that long.

Rico > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:19

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I always say your loyalty should always be to yourself.

Sovande > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:22

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So read another article that has the opposite premise and conclusions. It’s not as though one article should be taken as gospel or the end of the discussion.

Work sucks. Management has a goal: get more for less. Employees, oddly enough have the same goal. It’s what makes the world go round and always has.

fintail > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:24

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I haven’t been an employer-changer as I have been with the same one for several years, but as the youngest Xer (just hitting 40)/oldest whatever comes next, I’ve learned that if you don’t seek a new position every few years, your salary won’t evolve as you want.

shop-teacher > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:34

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My grandfather sat me down when I was in high school in the late 90's, and told me this:

“Listen, the days of getting a good job, staying there for thirty years, and having them take care of you, are over. You’re on your own kid. Nobody’s going to look out for you but you. You can’t do what I did, that path doesn’t exist anymore. You’re going to be entrepreneurial. You’re going to have to move around. You’re going to have to scrap it out.”

For some context, my grandfather had just wrapped up a 70 year career in the oil industry. That wasn’t a typo, he literally worked his way up from a ditch digger for Gilmore Oil straight out of high school, to vice president of a regional oil company. He spent decades with Mobil, from which he received a nice fat pension. He didn’t have to work until he was 87. He did it because he wanted to.

He watched the world change before his ever so observant eyes. He saw the corporate culture change. He knew the world was burning. He was good enough to warn me. I was smart enough to listen.

I’ve made it my life’s mission to keep acquiring skills. One way or another, I shall survive. I shall scrap it out. I love teaching, and I hope I can make a full career out of it. But who knows what life may bring.

I’m not foolish enough to think I can ever “retire”. Someday I will stop teaching. Maybe my pension will be there, maybe it won’t. I know Social Security won’t, because teachers don’t get that. No matter what, something will come next. Some job, some business. I won’t just be sitting on my ass waiting for a check to show up.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > My bird IS the word 07/16/2017 at 21:39

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Right? They throw us scraps and wonder why we find food somewhere else!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Danger 07/16/2017 at 21:40

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30% is strong. And I guarantee they were asking “where’s the loyalty?” When you gave your notice.

For Sweden > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:41

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That’s because we can blame everything on millennials

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:41

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Can confirm, this is true. Years ago I was at 46k and got my Professional Engineer license. They bumped me to 52k. Then I talked to another company and was hired at 66k. The company I left would only match up to 56k. It was an easy decision to make. I still get 3% raises but since I make a decent amount 3% is actually quite a bit. What pisses me off now is that a tech or scientist that makes half of what I make gets 2% raise. That is just shit treatment.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Wagon Guy drives a Boostang 07/16/2017 at 21:43

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“Too bad that the world is run by bad bosses.”

This. So much this. Is it bad that I’ve had more quality bosses in the car business than I ever did in normal jobs? But I’ve also had some real assholes, so i guess it evens out.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > yamahog 07/16/2017 at 21:45

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You just can’t, it’s not realistic. It used to be that you could work your way from mailroom guy to something in middle management in a matter of years. Now it’s more likely to be decades if it even happens. Once they think you’ll take the mailroom pay, they’ll keep you there. Or they’ll give you more responsibility and nowhere near the money that responsibility should command.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > For Sweden 07/16/2017 at 21:45

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It’s our damn Avacado toast apparently.

Party-vi > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:46

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My superintendent told me after a round of layoffs he want to upper management and said “you guys are flush with cash and this 3.5% raise isn’t going to cut it. Give me a real raise or I walk.” He got $30,000. I’m guessing he’s around $100,000 right now. It sad that it takes a threat like that to keep good people.

Chariotoflove > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:51

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In academia, where I am, it’s possible to stay in one place for a long time. Longevity is even rewarding. However, even though merit pay increases are expected and given, the truth is that the best way to increase your salary is still often to market yourself to other institutions and get recruited away. In fact, if you’re a climber, it’s often the only way to advance.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 07/16/2017 at 21:51

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I graduated college in 1998 and my first job was at Worldcom. Some MBA decided new talent was worth more than loyal employees. I was fresh out of school and making more than people who had been at MCI for 20 years. But in 3 years I never saw a raise. So I went to Webvan, you can guess how that ended.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:57

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In 2008 I knew of a few people with 20+ years at companies and let go without even a goodbye party.

At my last company, they seemed to have no hesitation of sidelining folks with 20+ years for some new hotshot with 2 years and an ego to fill. People are a commodity. They’d rather put up with 6+months of medocre work, till a person can get up to speed knowing they’ll be saving 50% in salary costs.

Birddog > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 21:58

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This isn’t a joke. It’s been happening for a long time.

Back around 1994 I landed my first job out of College. Second shift supervisor for a water treatment product company.

I got to know one of the higher middle managers. He gave me some good corporate wisdom. If you’re in the same position for three years without moving up, you’re dead.

Not long after that I signed up for a plumber apprenticeship.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 07/16/2017 at 22:01

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The last time I consistently got raises was in that era. In 1999 they doubled it once, in 2000 I got a 50%, in 2008 I got a 5%, and in 2015 I got a 20%. Still underpaid by a substantial margin. My next job will probably be an 80-100% raise from where I’m at right now.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 07/16/2017 at 22:05

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“I graduated college in 1998 and my first job was at Worldcom”

My sympathies... I remember Worldcom... MCI payed way too much. Had they waited, they could have bought Worldcom for 1/10th of what they paid or less.

I don’t remember Webvan... which suggest to me it was probably worse than Worldcom...

Danger > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 22:18

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No one responded to my emails or calls when I was leaving. Their message was very clear.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Danger 07/16/2017 at 22:20

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Oh no doubt.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 07/16/2017 at 22:23

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Webvan was a home grocery delivery service that used large fleets of refrigerated trucks to bring you everything you needed. Guess what the margin on groceries is too small to pay for those.

PatBateman > For Sweden 07/16/2017 at 22:27

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I blame the blaming of the Millennials on the Millennials.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Party-vi 07/16/2017 at 22:27

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Almosr every person I’ve seen get real results in terms of a raise or promotion has done it that way, or come in with the intentions to leave for greener pastures.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 07/16/2017 at 22:34

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Shit... with just a high-school-level of Economics knowledge along with having worked in a grocery store as a teen, I could have told them that the margins in the grocery business were too slim to support what they wanted to do... unless they teamed up with a luxury grocer like Pusateri’s...

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/16/2017 at 22:34

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It always bothered me how most businesses don’t reward certifications for existing employees the way that the free market does. In fact, if you came in at the level you were at with them, they probably woulda hired above the 56k mark.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 07/16/2017 at 22:36

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Isn’t that sad? And they blame employees for complacency. But how many years are you supposed to get shit raises before you realize the company isn’t growing your salary with your effort or experience and start working down to your paycheck?

WilliamsSW > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 22:37

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Some of this varies by industry, but any company that isn’t giving regular raises without being coerced doesn’t value you, and doesn’t deserve you.

I’ve been working for nearly 30 years in manufacturing, and have been lucky/smart enough to work for good people most of that time- so I’ve generally gotten very good raises without switching companies often (4 in the last 25 years) . When I ended up at a company that didn’t want to pay me what I was worth, though, I bailed — as you or anyone else should do, too.

But I’d take it with a grain of salt to say you need to switch every two years. If that’s actually your strategy, I think you’re doing it wrong.

for Michigan > Sovande 07/16/2017 at 22:40

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This comment is irrelevant without a source.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 22:56

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I work in the financial industry, if you don’t change companies every few years or so you’re not getting that promotion or raise. You get a better offer from another company and leave, then two years later come back to the same company making even more. There’s no way that this is cost effective either...

garagemonkee > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 22:58

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related:

Essentially when the recession hit, employers who survived it had laid off a good portion of their workers, and as the economy recovered, they discovered, “hey, we don’t actually need to rehire people, the three workers we have now are doing fine! And we can keep more money for ourselves this way!”

So essentially? The recession of 2008 taught employers how far they can push employees when there is a constant fear of not having a constant stream of income, even if that income is unfair to them.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 07/16/2017 at 23:15

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Webcam was a fairly visible dot-com startup that died with the dot-com bust.

That bust was nasty. It was a tech depression...

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 23:23

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Yes that is exactly correct. I have seen people leave for a year then come back because they like the job but needed the transition to get a salary boost. It’s ridiculous.

jariten1781 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/16/2017 at 23:40

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FWIW, I will not hire anybody who switches jobs every couple years...I have a not-insignificant recruitment/on-boarding cost for every new hire plus there’s their learning curve while they get up to speed where I’m paying more than their production. Generally (few, but some exceptions), if I am not reasonably comfortable that I’m getting 5+ years out of a prospective hire their resume goes in the trash. I’m especially wary of certification/degree collectors.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > Party-vi 07/17/2017 at 00:00

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That’s exactly what I had to do, and it worked surprisingly well. Too bad it’s necessary, though.

yamahog > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/17/2017 at 00:05

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yep, too many places would rather wring the most profit out of their low-paid workforce and leave them burnt out and quitting in 3-5 years than actually develop their talent.

Wheelerguy > PatBateman 07/17/2017 at 01:45

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themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/17/2017 at 08:11

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Sounds about right. My company just let go of people with 20+ years for very very minor and asinine reasons. People with power are petty, vindictive assholes who have no business being managers.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/17/2017 at 08:28

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It used to be that go-getters were people that believed in the company and the people within. Now they’re just the ones that cut the most throats. It’s sad.

TorqueToYield > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/17/2017 at 08:54

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You can actually see the middle class disappearing. And put a year on when it started to die. 1979.

Sovande > for Michigan 07/17/2017 at 09:26

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Huh? Basically his argument is invalid as it is single source research. I can make any claim and then find an article on the internet to support it.

The sweeping generalizations made by the OP are silly. Every company out there just wants to pump and dump their employees, and “loyal” is a code word for “beaten down” . This is simply not true. It makes no sense for a company to want to operate like that. It’s the battle cry of the inept. If you aren’t getting the credit (by way of merit increases) you deserve at your job there are likely two reasons: you are not very good at your job, or your manager/owner sucks. The solution is the same in each instance: Get a new job.

Alternatively you can whine about it on the internet in hopes that a couple other people “feel your pain.” Whether or not this helps your situation at work remains to be seen, I suppose.

Sovande > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 07/17/2017 at 10:00

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20 years and no party?? THE HORROR.

uofime-2 > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/17/2017 at 10:26

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3% is just keeping up with inflation, don’t kid yourself. You’re in fact not getting a raise at all, you’re just not loosing any more money.

Insist on more or find a new job. I don’t know where you work but 66k for a PE is waaaay to low!

WiscoProud > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 07/17/2017 at 13:52

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I worked at one company that lost a giant sexual harassment suit, and actually lowered everyone’s pay by 10%. I skipped out shortly after, but I had a friend who stayed and years later they still hadn’t increased the pay. As you can imagine, the workforce was primarily kids right out of college looking for applicable experience who would then jump ship in a year.